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Wednesday, March 26, 2008

How big is the Animal Farm?

Kim Sengupta is the Defence and Diplomatic Correspondent of The Independent. On 14 March 2008 he authored the second part of an article which curiously had only the signature of his colleague Richard Garner, Education Editor at The Independent. On that article, Sengupta wrote:
“Conservative estimates of the number of Iraqi civilians killed since the beginning of the invasion stand at around 85,000.”
You can read more about this here.

An ordinary example of how the state-corporate media keep denying the Iraq genocide and - by doing so - help the carnage to continue.

Nothing new, of course. The genocide denial business is the first priority of Washington and London. They cannot allow the public opinion in the US and UK (and the rest of the West) to know the extent of the horror they brought to Iraq. The word GENOCIDE still has a very strong appeal among the public and GENOCIDE is what Washington and London are responsible for.

If we had a serious anti-war movement, the main UK anti-war group would organise a boycott against all those media outlets that keep denying the Iraq genocide. The main UK anti-war group would campaign to inform the public opinion of the scale of the horror we brought to Iraq. Above all the main UK anti-war group would inform the UK public opinion of the propaganda campaign the major UK media outlets are carrying on against the UK people with the help of Iraq Body Count.

Instead Stop the War Coalition and Media Workers Against the War have invited Kim Sengupta, the Defence and Diplomatic Correspondent of The Independent, to a London rally called "HOW THE MEDIA SELLS WAR AND WHY".

There is something deeply wrong when the anti-war movement is giving an anti-war stage to genocide deniers. This is the same anti-war movement that kept silent over the Iraq Body Cont scandal, the source of that genocide denial Washington, London and their media use to carry on their agenda.

The question is: How big is the Animal Farm?

20 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The first Lancet study (2004) estimated 98,000 deaths. Were the authors of that study (at the time it was published) "genocide deniers"?

Are the authors of the WHO study (which estimated 151,000 violent deaths) "genocide deniers"?

Please answer these questions.

12:50 PM  
Blogger The Cat's Dream said...

Again the same (please note: THE SAME) Iraq Body Count's friend who keeps posting anonymous comments on this blog. This time he must have been quite nervous if he didn't realise that he answered his own question when he wrote:

"The first Lancet study (2004)..."

Indeed: 2004!!!

At that time what the so-called count of IBC was? Today, 26 March 2008, the IBC "count" is: 82,418 - 89,938.

What a shame!

1:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please answer the question. In 2004 did the Lancet study indicate that "genocide" had occurred?

1:25 PM  
Blogger Rob said...

Well that Lancet study was nearly 4 years ago. The more recent studies that I know of are Lancet 2006 which estimated about 600,000 excess deaths since the occupation. Its finding may be different from WHO's because my understanding is that the WHO study estimated that 151000 Iraqi's had died violently as a result of the occupation whereas the Hopkins study found that around 600000 more Iraqi's had died since the occupation than would have been expected to die under Sadam Husseins government which I think would also include non violent deaths. From Wikipedia "The studies estimate the number of excess deaths caused by the occupation, both direct (combatants plus non-combatants) and indirect (due to increased lawlessness, degraded infrastructure, poor healthcare, etc.)" Both though are around 2 years old. ORB's survey which is just under over 6 months old gives an estimate of about 1000000 Iraqi,s being killed due to the occupation.http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=88 So I think Gabriel is right to suggest that Stop the war puts more of its I suspect small resources into pointing out the "genocide" we are responsible for in Iraq and to boycott or shame media sources that try to avoid the best estimates that we have of Iraqi mortalities as a result of the information.

1:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rob, that's incorrect. The Lancet 2006 figures are: 601,000 deaths by violence (655,000 total excess deaths).

Lancet 2004 figures: 57,600 by violence (98,000 total excess deaths).

The point about the October 2004 Lancet study is that the violent deaths figure is approximately 3 times that of IBC. And if you allow for the fact that IBC counts only reported civilian deaths (Lancet includes combatants and civilians), Lancet 2004 is not vastly higher than IBC's count.

Now, Gabriele Zamparini is fond of labelling IBC as "genocide deniers". In fact he's fond of labelling anyone who criticises the Lancet studies as "genocide deniers".

I want Gabriele to see the logical (or rather illogical) consequences of his position on this.

The WHO study differs from Lancet 2006 by 450,000 violent deaths. It's much closer to IBC's figures than to Lancet 2006's (and is explicit in its support of IBC data and rejection of Lancet data).

The WHO study was peer-reviewed epidemiology with a much larger sample size and better quality control than the Lancet studies. I want to know if Zamparini considers the WHO authors to be "genocide deniers".

2:18 PM  
Blogger The Cat's Dream said...

Dear readers,

please, be very careful when you read the disinformation this IBC's anonymous friend keep posting on this blog.

Please read:

1) Lancet study authors Les Roberts and Gilbert Burnham have written an informative piece on Iraq mortality studies, available at the website for the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School for Public Health.

2) MIT's John Tirman, who commissioned the second of the two Lancet studies, has answered critics of those studies, including what looks like a media campaign of disinformation

3) Regarding the WHO study estimate of 151,000 deaths, Les Roberts has noted that there is more in common with the Lancet results than first appears, while he also points to a likely under-reporting of violent deaths in the WHO study. [Also here]

4) Spagat's "50-page research paper" is a non-refereed, unpublished document that he uploaded to his own website (!!!) Serious flaws, including deceptive cherry-picking of data, have been identified by statistician Tim Lambert at his Deltoid blog.

Thanks.

Best wishes,
Gabriele

2:29 PM  
Blogger The Cat's Dream said...

For some reason the first link in my previous comment doesn't work. Please, click here to read:

Answers to Questions About Iraq Mortality Surveys

2:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please answer the question Gabriele. Do you consider the WHO study authors to be "genocide deniers"?

2:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, the WHO authors are at least genocide deniers, if not indirectly participating in it by not keeping quiet at the real numbers.

To Rob, please do not use or specially quote wikipedia as a source, they are unreliable and commit numerous errors. They don't allow corrections of their errors if they disagree with what their few so-called editors believe.

4:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I meant to write, 'by keeping quiet about the real number.

4:48 AM  
Anonymous Wafeeq said...

to the anonymous defending the WHO group, why don't you quit your defence of the politically incorrect Iraq Body Count and find another point to babble about? You are in losing battle.

4:52 AM  
Anonymous Roberto said...

Thanks Gabriele for your letter. I am a bit disappointed to see the internal fights between committed people working for the same goals (with due differences). Let's say that we had 350,000 deaths in Iraq, between the Lancet and NEJM estimates (both studies are serious, published in peer-review journals -- while the IBC sorry but the use of press reports to estimate mortality in a war zone is a very flawed methodology) there is still enough ground to impeach Bush-Cheney-Rice-Powell-Rumsfeld, to condemn them for War Crimes under the direction of an international body. The problem is that the Americans do what they want, and the people of the world are not outraged enough to contrast this tendency. Stop the War Coalition, I hope, to increase the critical consciousness of people, and that's what we all do here, I think. Why should we fight against each other when we need to create a critical mass to fight the real targets of this genocide?

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波纹板托盘
镀锌托盘
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北京托盘
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托盘
钢托盘
钢制托盘
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塑料托盘
木托盘
木制托盘
纸托盘
木塑托盘
柱式托盘
波纹托盘
镀锌托盘
南京托盘
上海托盘
北京托盘
广州托盘
托盘
钢托盘
钢制托盘
铁托盘
木托盘
塑料托盘
木塑托盘
柱式托盘
波纹板托盘
镀锌托盘
南京托盘
上海托盘
北京托盘
广州托盘

托盘
钢托盘
钢制托盘
铁托盘
塑料托盘
木托盘
木制托盘
纸托盘
木塑托盘
柱式托盘
波纹托盘
镀锌托盘
南京托盘
上海托盘
北京托盘
广州托盘
托盘
钢托盘
钢制托盘
铁托盘
塑料托盘
木托盘
纸托盘
木塑托盘
柱式托盘
波纹板托盘
镀锌托盘
南京托盘
上海托盘
北京托盘
广州托盘

托盘
钢托盘
钢制托盘
托盘
塑料托盘

仓储笼
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折叠式仓储笼
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杭州仓储笼

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折叠式仓储笼
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塑料托盘

仓储笼
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仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
折叠式仓储笼
折叠仓储笼
折叠仓储笼

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南京仓储笼
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仓储笼
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南京仓储笼
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广州仓储笼

仓储笼
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储物笼
南京仓储笼
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南京仓储笼
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挂板架
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